PS3: Rumour: PS4 to be announced on Feb 20. (teaser included)

Discussion in 'Hardware Talk' started by Cadder, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. FunkyJ

    FunkyJ Well-Known Member

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    Considering Sony didn't show the console, I don't understand what the fuss is all about.

    Wow, 3 hours of talking something up that maybe 40 people in the world have seen, and video of games which may be available on the console for launch... woo frickity hoo.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in the device... I just think this type of advertising / teasing is bullshit. The way bloggers and websites covered it to the way Sony announced absolutely nothing just shits me to tears.
     
  2. SemiproCharlie

    SemiproCharlie Well-Known Member

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    To me, seeing the controller was much more important than seeing the console. The controller is what's interact with 100% of the time I'm playing it, while the console itself is all but out of sight in my TV unit.

    Even more than the controller (given how similar it is to the PS3 controller), I liked seeing the demos and hearing about some of the features. Again, what the actual box looks like is far less important to me than what it can do.

    I'm not hugely in to social media, but the possibilities of the "share" button on the controller are... interesting. I do like the social side of gaming, and by the time this comes out I should be on the NBN to take advantage of these things (unless they go through an American server).

    I had fun watching the event, though the quality of the connection was a little frustrating.
     
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  3. Ancient_One

    Ancient_One Console Manager Captain

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    The Network will be the clinch pin for this build. It could succeed or fail based on how well your network is. I'm wondering if a wait approach is in order.
     
  4. Bawheidbob

    Bawheidbob Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was a bit meh but I live in a place where I do not have access to unlimited fibre optic broadband.

    I am not too fussed about not seeing the box - They could of wheeled out any square piece of plastic hollow crap would it have made any difference to us if we are or are not going to buy it by how the box looks.

    I would of liked to have seen one other must buy title MGS 5 or Last Guardian or something.

    Least we did not have to wait until E3 and now we can expect a pretty good showing from Sony there because they are going to have to sell the console soon after.
     
  5. Schizo

    Schizo Well-Known Member

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    Note: I'm not trying to flame away, I'm not trying to bait anyone, and I'm not trying to play as a Microsoft/Sony/PC/Steambox/Whatever fanboy. These are just my observations from the announcement yesterday and thoughts in general on the current state of the console industry and where I see it going.

    Color me unimpressed from what I've seen so far.

    This generation of consoles isn't going to be much of a leap forward I'm afraid. Evolution more than revolution...and this is where the biggest problem is:

    Average Joe consumer has very little reason to buy the PS4 from what has been shown so far. The hardcore gamers will buy consoles on launch day and for the first year or so, but typically hardware in the first few years is subsidized and the company (Sony) takes a loss on each console sold, hoping to recoup the costs later on with software sales. When sales to the hardcore peter out, Average Joe needs to step in and start buying, and right now, I just don't see the reason for a casual or non-gamer to pick up the console.

    Are the visuals improved? Seems so, but I don't think a casual will be able to point out the differences between a PS3 and PS4 screenshot side by side. In fact, each successive generation of consoles seems to be making less and less of a leap forward in visual prowess. Current televisions are only maxing out at 1080p, so not much can be done on the resolution level, and while 4k televisions are now hitting the marketplace, the adoption rate is low...perhaps something for the next generation of consoles.

    So the PS4 is touted as having all these social media aspects to it. It even has a 'share' button on the controller! So while this may endear itself to the facebook crowd, it doesn't seem like it would be a major selling point to the machine. Unless, of course, I'm completely underestimating the social media aspect (terribly likely since I'm about as anti-facebook as they come), there does not seem to be much value in purchasing a PS4 when one already has a PS3, or is faced with the option of purchasing a much cheaper PS3.

    Of course, what it eventually all comes down to is the games. Will the PS4 have enough exclusives to make it a success? Seems like Sony does realize this is the driver and is attempting to bring on board the heavyweights of the industry, such as Bungie, Squeenix, and Blizzard. I'm still a bit skeptical since Diablo 3 wasn't the lofty game most were expecting it to be, Squeenix's best days are behind them, and Bungie is developing a new IP that may or may not be a success.

    So what does this mean? It means I'm a Debbie Downer. I wasn't expecting anything crazy out of the PS4, and perhaps I'm letting that cloud what I've seen so far. I don't think the next Xbox is going to be much different. It means I'm a stuck up old bastard who thinks games were better 'back in the day' and 'get off my lawn'. So take it all with a grain of salt.

    I will say though, the adoption rates are going to mean everything. I don't think you are going to see sales of the consoles reach as high as they did during this last generation of consoles (or even the one before that!), and I also think there is going to be a much, much shorter lifecycle on this generation. I think within just a few years, 4k televisions will be more widespread, the processing horsepower cost to run at 4k will be lower, and you'll see the next generation beyond this one sooner rather than later.

    Problem is, Sony is in some dire financial straits right now, and their console division is helping to keep the company afloat. They need the PS4 to be a success. If it flops, it worries me as to whether there will be a PS5.




    (the preceding rant and pseudo-intellectual analysis of the game industry and console lifecycle are made by a Schizophrenic who probably spends more time playing old consoles than current-gen machines and whose opinions are probably rubbish anyway)
     
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  6. Bawheidbob

    Bawheidbob Well-Known Member

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    So a couple of hours later and I have pre-ordered. :)
     
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  7. SemiproCharlie

    SemiproCharlie Well-Known Member

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    My initial plan was to hold off buying it until either a cool bundle came out, or the price drops. I've since upgraded that to "or a cool exclusive game is released", and then once more to "Fine! I'll get one in the first week, but I'm not pre-ordering!".

    Then, I realised it's been a while since I picked up something at a midnight release and played games all night. That used to be fun, so maybe...
     
  8. Ancient_One

    Ancient_One Console Manager Captain

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    I'll sit on my fence and watch you all go in and throw down that hard earned money for your next gen console all the while thinking....

    Scenario 1: I will play most of the same games as you for another 2 - 3 years before finally upgrading as my machine is no longer supported.

    Scenario 2: I will play most of the same games as you for as long as my console draws breath.

    Scenario 3: I will play most of the same games as you until a game I want is released on the new console.

    Scenario 4: I will give up playing games on consoles and switch to PC.
     
  9. Cadder

    Cadder Retired Captain

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    /me circles option 3
     
  10. Father

    Father The Boss Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    That's my personal opinion of course but PC gaming to me is still the most satisfying, I do have a PS3 and 360 but in all honesty they really don't see much use but I did enjoy some of the console exclusives like Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Red Dead Redemption (why this is not on PC is beyond me).

    I'm sure I'm forgetting quite a few here but if there is a PC option I will always go with that, hence my hope that the fact that both xbox and playstation will be PC based systems will translate into less exclusives or at least less poor console ports.
    Will I get a PS4, probably eventually, doubtful on launch though as most of the mainstream AAA titles are no longer appealing to me (getting too old for the suspension of disbelief to work), but let say that David Cage's Beyond would be PS4 exclusive then yes it would peak my desire to get one, I'm sure it won't be nor would it have the same audience as something like God of War which I would never play.
    So probably a few years into it's life cycle I will, as I did with the current gen.

    The main issue I have with console gaming today are the graphics and performance, yes it's a shallow argument but geez it's pretty bad though, when I play games on consoles, the horrible jaggies, the texture pop ins, frame drops.
    I guess that's an inevitable comparison when being a PC gamer but when I play on a console I can't help but thinking how much better would this look if it was on PC, particularly on 360, PS3 when exclusive does manage to look better then 360 but I guess that's where the no directx lock down helps.
     
  11. xenoph

    xenoph Retired Captain

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    I will not be getting the PS4.
    I've never really enjoyed the Playstation, even when the first one came out I preferred to continue on the N64.

    I do think that Schizo has a very valid point though - Sony need the PS4 to be a success, or it might just not be a PS5, which I don't think the console market will benefit from.
    Of course, perhaps people will return to the PC then...
     
  12. Ancient_One

    Ancient_One Console Manager Captain

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    Sorry......did you just say you would never play God of War on a console. Call yourself a console gamer. :p ;)
     
  13. Schizo

    Schizo Well-Known Member

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  14. xenoph

    xenoph Retired Captain

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    Hah, that's a load of swearing. :p
     
  15. Drac

    Drac Squad Officer

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    Pretty much the same as all other game console launches then?


    I knoew what all the "analysis" sites said, but I honestly think the PS3 broke even for the first few years and has been making a profit for longer than most realise. And there are a lot of other factors involved beyond jsut the cost of getting the console to consumers. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo take a cut of every single game sale for the platform, so even if they're still at break even on the hardware they're still making money in other places (and loosing in yet others areas, such as marketing and support).

    Anyway, looking at just this aspect of a console is pointless, it's like looking at how long a particular kind of paint will last on a car you're about to purchase and claiming that if the paint will hold up for 20 years then nothing else on the car could possible break before then - things just aren't that simple.

    That being said, the launch price will be super important, and this is often an area in which Sony has been quite poor at.

    Correct. A non-gamer would not buy a game console. Just like people with 20/20 vision don't buy corrective lenses.

    Not really getting your point here. Also, what's your definition of casual gamer, and why do you see it as bad that such casual people would not want a game console?

    Again with the casual?

    Have you ever heard anyone refer to themselves as a "casual gamer"?

    I also think you do a disservice to people's intelligence here. Show a PS3/4 screen shot comparison to any actual gamer and they'll see the difference, trust me. There's a massive jump in hardware there. Don't be fooled by the fact that it's PC hardware, the Xbox 360 is little more than a Pentium D (like, slower than a current Atom low power CPU) with an ATI X1800 (ooooooold), yet look what that kit can do when a developer knows that's the base minimum and can program to the bare metal!

    PC (Windows) games are horribly inefficient because they have to work though all these driver and OS layers before they get to the hardware, it's the only way you can sanely make PC games that run on thousands of different bits of hardware. This is something the Steambox will have problems with, it's being built on stop of a slow general-purpose software stack (Windows or Linux, they're both slow compared to what you can do working with a fixed hardware set directly).

    Also, GPGPU processing (physics, particle wet dreams - probably literally - realtime 3D fluid dynamics would be possible) being standard and usable for actual game play rather than just optional visual effects for those who have the hardware is the big leg up over the PC here.


    :w

    Picking MGS as it's game who's format hasn't really changed much over the years:

    [​IMG]
    There be boxes!

    [​IMG]
    There be more boxes! But they have a higher resoltuon, oh and shadows, everyone loves boxes with shadows!

    [​IMG]
    Dafuq happened to all the boxes?

    Those differences look fairly large to me, I'd even say (aside from resolution) the PS1/2 differences were much less pronounced compare to the PS2/3.

    I think hitting 1080P at 60fps + AA and with enough power to use lavishly complex shaders for every surface/polygon plus lots of physics/destruction and a ridiculous amount of particles and GPGPU goodness will really will open up a new world of eye candy. Sure it takes exponentially more power to keep upping the bar now but thankfully the hardware is actually exponentially more powerful.

    I'd say you're off the mark a bit here. Also, "the facebook crowd" is 100 million strong at last count. For the older gamers this may not be a huge selling point, but for many it is. The sharing and social aspects of the console is what had everyone in my office exited (we make games so suffice to say, everyone at the office plays a lot of games). Mostly because a lot of what we do involves sharing and discussing our gaming experiences and anything that makes that simpler and easier is a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

    But does this really have any relevance to the platform? I mean, a console is just a means to access/play games. The main differences between the PS3/360 (aside from exclusives, of which there's generally enough on offer for either console in every genre) it's the services that allow you to connect to games and other gamers. IMO, 360 beats the pants off PS3 for this and Sony knows that, looks to me like they want to change it up and focus on getting people playing/sharing/discovering faster.

    Personally I think Sony's new philosophy for what a good game platform should be is great, however, it'll all depend on how well it's executed. If Sony has a proven track record of anything it's their ability to over promise and under deliver. Remote play was meant to happen for the PS3 with the PSP, it didn't, along with a lot of other nice ideas that suffered from poor execution (like PlayStation Home).

    Why?

    PS3 had terrible adoption out of the gate and despite being out a year less than the 360 it's sold worldwide an equal amount.

    I disagree with a lot of those for a lot of different reasons. 4K TVs really aren't that necessary for, well, anything except people who have enough cash to build their own private home theater with a 100"+ display. PC desktop resolutions haven't moved much in the past 5 years and there's a genuine befit to increase the resolution there as text display is still a primary function on the desktop. For TVs which focus on games/media 4K is really quite pointless - it's more a push by the TV companies trying to make you think you need another TV as they desperately try to keep profits up from the initial HDTV push.

    I'd be more worried about a single company dominating the console game market. Competition here is necessary, and because the competition is so fierce companies will take risks - some will be great, others will fail (it's ok Kinect, some children and weirdo hackers still love you) but I think those risks, both good and bad, are also necessary to keep the industry moving forward.

    I guess I just have a different perspective on things. Overall I think the PS4 sounds great, and if Sony can actually deliver what they promise I'd like to hope it would do well.

    At the same time the landscape is changing. Steambox and mobile gaming may effect consoles, they may not, it's pretty much impossible to predict any of this as it's never really happened before. How big is the gaming market and how much money are gamers spending, and what are they spending it on?

    Also, this is gold:

     
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  16. Chief

    Chief Retired Captain

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    I'm just stoked about the suspend mode. Now when the Mrs starts yelling at me about something and I have to put the controller down I won't have to worry about finding a save point first or whatever :p
     
  17. Bawheidbob

    Bawheidbob Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the ability to just switch the thing on and play when you want to and switch off just as easily is ace - Countless times I have taken the urge to ( no not that ) play my PS3 or XBox, heck even a PC game, and found that the urge has almost past by the time i boot up download and actually get in to play.

    I think part of me just wants to buy a new shine :)

    Edit - Brilliant find with the video Drac
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  18. FunkyJ

    FunkyJ Well-Known Member

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    Waves furiously.

    Even though I could kick your butt in any game you care to name (except FIFA... for some reason I'm really shit at that online!) and I know gaming inside and out, I consider myself a casual gamer.

    I will buy certain franchises every release (The Sims including Sim City, Civ, FIFA, Magic the Gathering) but I won't rush out to buy the latest game. I want to, but I have other priorities. And I won't line up at launch for any console or game - Did that once, f*ck doing that again!

    This is what I posted about the PS4 on my blog:

    And if Xbox do it as well, I'll be equally furious.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  19. parso

    parso Getting Started

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    PS1 = cd player
    PS2 = dvd player
    PS3 = blu ray player
    PS4 = um blu ray player again......try selling that to the wife:bigstupid:

    Both PS2 and PS3 must have found themselves in many households for these feature's alone. I wonder how many sony consoles were sold as entry level media players, and a gaming platform as a secondary/bonus feature? Ill be interested on the PS4's uptake early on.

    Anyway as a few have mentioned Ill most likely buy once that killer exclusive comes out.
     
  20. Schizo

    Schizo Well-Known Member

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    Previous Sony consoles had additional incentive to be purchased at the time of release. The PS2 was just about the cheapest DVD player available at the time. The PS3 was just about the cheapest Blu-Ray player available at the time. It helped the consoles find their ways into homes that may not have necessarily had gaming consoles in them. People will try out some games, and you can easily turn some non-gamers into gamers just by virtue of having a box in the room that can play movies and also games.




    Doubtful. Even with the purchasing power of buying components in bulk and leveraging these costs with suppliers, the PS3's cell processor was very expensive to produce and never really found its way into other devices to lower the costs. Even though this is all just speculation, I've yet to come across a single estimate that showed that Sony was breaking even on the console sales. Heck the 360 was in the same boat. I think the Wii was the only console of the previous generation that was sold at a break even or even slight profit point. Which brings us to..

    Bingo. They have to sell the games, which is why they've brought on heavyweights like Bungie, Blizzard, and Square-Enix.

    Not really sure where you're going with this? If you are referring to the fact that I have a feeling this generation of consoles lifecycle is going to be much shorter than the current generation, I feel it is going to be shorter due to a number of factors:


    • The gap of 7-8 years from the PS3, 360, and Wii to the PS4, 720(?), and WiiU was one of the longest so far between console generations. The usual turnaround has been closer to 5-6 years.
    • I don't think this generation is going to be a big leap forward, but the next generation will likely have 4k support and will probably be a bigger jump. Who knows what else may be kicking around in 5 years?
    • The previous gen consoles were equivalent of higher end PCs when designed. These designs seem to be only in the mid-PC world. They'll be outdated faster.
    But those are all just speculative opinions.


    Agreed. I think Sony realizes their debacle that was the PS3 launch. I don't think they're going to make the same mistake again (high launch price, dearth of launch games).



    No, they wouldn't. But they would buy a DVD player or a Blu-Ray player if they were cheaper than the alternatives on the market. The PS4 doesn't have much to entice a non-gamer to buy it. That's part of how the PS2 and PS3 gained entrance into many households.

    The hardcore fanbase is always going to be around to buy games, the casuals are the group that Sony wants to get more into gaming. Take a look at my fiancee. She isn't big into gaming. She enjoys it, but a game like God of War she is more content to watch me play than play herself. A game like Little Big Planet? I think she played that more than I did.

    Casuals are a great market to tap into. Nintendo did it well with the Wii.



    We have at least one self-professed in this thread :)

    I have quite a few family members that would probably identify as casual.

    Any actual gamer, yes. People who are trained to know the difference between game visual quality. My point is that Average Joe isn't going to see much of a difference. Is it better? Sure. Enough to warrant dropping whatever the purchase price of a new console ($300, $400?). Ehhh...it becomes a tough sell.

    I highly disagree, but that is my opinion and you have yours. I do feel though that you get a point of diminishing returns when to comes to things like poly count. A character made of only a few dozen polys is going to look pretty crap. A few hundred looks much better. A few thousand looks better. It is a logarithmic scale that will get better and better, but eventually where does the difference become negligible?

    Dangit, there was a really good image I saw the other day illustrating this, and now I can't find it. :mad:

    It is a step forward, but this is not a big one. This is mid-end PC gear going into the PS4. Evolution rather than revolution.

    Show casual Joe the Atari 2600 and the NES side by side and they can definitely tell the difference. A good PS2 game next to a so-so PS3 game? Maybe not so much.



    I think Facebook is evil, so I'm probably not their target market for this ;)



    I'll agree with you that Microsoft's online play was generally better at matchmaking and such. However, Playstation's offerings have caught up. I don't think Micorsoft will be able to sell their services for $60 since Sony is doing much of the same for free.

    Ugh, don't remind me! :)



    I'll say again, adoption rates mean everything for Sony this time around. The company is in a very vulnerable position right now. They are strapped for cash and their console division is just about one of the only positives they have going for them. The Vita (so far) has not been a terrible success. If Sony is taking a bath on each console sold, they need to be pushing games and fast to keep up the bottom line. If they produce the hardware a too high a cost, or lack games at launch, they are going to be losing money hand over fist. Not a good position for a company already in financial trouble to be in.

    Microsoft and Nintendo have deep pockets - they can weather such things a bit more easily at the moment.



    Again, I disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine. The demo I got to see of a 4k television was stunning. Retina displays on tablets are all the rage. I think the push to 4k is going to be a big one (from a gaming standpoint).



    Agreed. I want the PS4 to succeed. I want cool games. I want choice.

    And this is why I love going to the TOG boards because I can at least have a rational thought out conversation without hearing 'PS4 is going to be aw3some!!!!!!!!11111lol Ur jsut a hater!!!!'

    What can I say? I love the history of consoles and watching the market :)
     

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